1978 - Refit (Southampton)

Took place between 1st & 14th November, any further details please post.

I'm particularly keen to know if this was a wet or dry-dock event.

CAP wrote:Took place between 1st & 14th November, any further details please post.

I'm particularly keen to know if this was a wet or dry-dock event.

Actually it was much longer than that (about 6.5 weeks) and, as far as I know, was never
scheduled for those dates. It was originally scheduled to start
around Nov 10 and last about 17 days. However, the UK shipyard
unions were still peeved about the 1977 refit being shifted to Bayonne
and demanded more work to compensate them for the work they lost in
1977. Cunard caved in to the demands and canclled the scheduled
crossings of Oct 30-Nov 4 (Westbound) and the Novemebr 4-10 (Eastbound)
to extend the refit. (I was booked on the cancelled Oct 30-Nov 4
crossing and was directly affected by the changes). This extended the
planned refit by 11 days. However, the unions dragged their feet on the
job by "working to rule" and the work still had not been completed when
QE2 finally returned to service on December 16 in order to get to New
York in time for the highly profitable annual Christmas-New Year's
cruise that was scheduled to depart New York on December 21.
Workers were still on board during the crossing to New York and QE2
received a lot of negative publicity, especially in the New York Times.
(The Montreal Gazette carried the NY Times reports as well). So, QE2
was out of sevice from October 29, 1978 when she returned to
Southampton from a Canary Islands Cruise (that I was also booked on)
until December 16.

It had to be a dry docking because that is the refit where the
uderwater hull and boot-topping weres first painted blue using a new
type of paint that Cunard was testing with/for the British Admiralty.

Thanks Brian, excellent info.

In addition to those highlighted as cancelled, the originally planned "Bonanza Cruise" scheduled to depart on 16/12 for a five day excursion to the Bahamas would also have been dropped. Instead, the ship would have been on a westbound transatlantic in order to reach NY for the Caribbean cruise departing on 21/12

CAP wrote:Took place between 1st & 14th November, any further details please post.

I'm particularly keen to know if this was a wet or dry-dock event.

I joined QE2 Nov 1978 for the first time. We didn't sail on time due to boiler problems. After a few days we sailed straight into a force 10. We had to change course to search for a German container ship, MS Munchen, in trouble. By time we arrived at the area, there was a spotter plane overhead, and debri everywhere. It went straight down, no survivers. About two years ago, there was a documentary about what they now know, that it was a freak wave. In 19 years on Cunard ships, I never witnessed a storm like this one. I was sea sick and it took us 7 days to cross. I never had sea sickness again after that. My first ever ship. lol.
From what I can recall, the QE2 had just left dry dock. I hope this helps. JP.

Thanks JP, much appreciated.

I don't recall the incident with the container ship but thanks for posting.

My mother and I were onboard QE2 for that December crossing after the 1978 refit; we were originally booked on one of the earlier, cancelled crossings. The electricity onboard quit shortly after boarding; we spent four days alongside at Southampton (with complimentary shore excursions & champagne parties to keep pax occupied & happy) for things to be fixed before we sailed. We finally sailed with fewer than 500 passengers; they closed off four & five decks, moved all pax up, used the Columbia & Queen's Grill only, and had tea and shows & such in the Queen's Room only. And then, as mentioned, we hit some spectacularly bad weather and also rushed to the last reported position of the Munchen.

On the afternoon of that day (a somber one; I and other pax also saw the floating debris and knew that about 25-30 lives and a 600-foot ship had been lost), when the search finally was called off and the ship (by now way off course) prepared to head again to NY, we were told to move to the center of the public rooms and/or stay seated wherever we were (my mother & I were in the Queen's Room). The ship then made an amazingly sharp turn (like something a ship might do on trials) and revved up to full steam. It was after that that we ran into the horrific storm conditions described in the previous post. (Example: Q4 Room, cocktail party before dinner: dancing, drinking, etc. Wave hits broadside; ship takes a big roll; band totters, glassware and bottles slide off tables and bar; chairs & people fall over; captain immediately orders ship hove to.)

All in all, it was a truly memorable, one-of-a-kind crossing - and those of us who were passengers on it grew more and more fond of the ship, the officers, the crew, and Cunard itself the longer it lasted and the more unusual (and, yes, sometimes sad and scary) it became. We all KNEW that under these extreme circumstances, we couldn't be on a better ship or in better hands. I was already a QE2 fan; my mother became one on that crossing (her first on any ship!), and NO ONE, as far as I know, grumbled about wanting refunds or being inconvenienced by the delays. In those days, we all read the small print on our passenger contracts and also knew what travel on the North Atlantic in the winter could (and, in this case, did) entail. I made quite a few more westbound winter crossings on QE2 in the 1990s and 2000s. Some were quite rough, but none could match that 1978 adventure.

Thank you for sharing that story

A rough crossing and on the best ship to do it, what more can you ask for?

As a follow-up I've found some conflicting information regarding the ship timings.

In Carol Thatcher's 40 years Famous book she mentions that QE2 entered KGV on the 3/10/78 for a total of 43 days (this was not the original timing but the reasons above caused the run over). Also there is mention that an Atlantic Crossing and Caribbean Cruise was cancelled. Based on the days quoted by CT then QE2 would have been back in service on or around the 15/11/78. Which just doesn't tie in.

According to a schedule I have for 1978 then there was a Westbound crossing scheduled to depart on 2/10/78 then followed by a Caribbean Cruise departing New York on 7/10/78. It is possible that these are the cruises referred to in the book but this does not match in with Brian_O's note that the refit commenced after the Atlantic Isles Cruise on 29/10/78.

If I assume that the refit did start on the 29/10/78 and last the extended amount of days (surely CT can't get everything wrong!) then this would have put the finish on or around the 11/12/78 (which seems more in line with getting her over to America for the holiday season). This would have also brought her into New York around the 16/12/78 by which she would have been able to undertake the Bonanza cruise to the Bahamas. However with cabin 1004's information that electricity problems forced a four day stay in Southampton after the refit this would then explain why the Bahamas voyage was postponed. This would have also brought QE2 back on schedule as her last Atlantic crossing of the year was originally scheduled to depart from Southampton on 16/12/78.

CAP wrote:As a follow-up I've found some conflicting information regarding the ship timings.

In Carol Thatcher's 40 years Famous book she mentions that QE2 entered KGV on the 3/10/78 for a total of 43 days (this was not the original timing but the reasons above caused the run over). Also there is mention that an Atlantic Crossing and Caribbean Cruise was cancelled. Based on the days quoted by CT then QE2 would have been back in service on or around the 15/11/78. Which just doesn't tie in.

Ms. Thatcher's account is inaccurate. 3/11/78 would be closer to how things actually went. In 1978 I was booked on 3 back-to-back voyages on QE2 (at a substantial discount): the October 15-20 non-stop eastbound crossing, the October 21-29 Canary Islands cruise, and the October 30 - November 4 westbound crossing. All of these voyages are listed in the 1978 brochures.

The first 2 of these voyages definitely took place but the westbound crossing was cancelled to accomodate the extended refit. I know this to be true because of my own experience with Cunard on October 5-6 after I first learned of the cancellation (I cancelled my trip), and from other passengers who actually were aboard the first 2 voyages.

As an aside on the October 21-29 cruise there was an incident in Las Palmas in which a passenger fell overboard while the ship was docked. He was rescued by 4 crew/cruise staff members who dove in to the murky waters. I was personally acquainted with 3 of those gents: Brian Price, Eric Mason and George Schofield. The incident is documented in the first edition of "QE2" by Ron Warwick and Bill Flayhart (1985) but due to a typo the date is off by 1 year.

Thanks Brian, this now only adds to the other inaccuracies I've discovered in the book.

That said I believe in this instance the fault may simply be a typo. From the additional information I'm guessing now that the actual date she (QE2 not CT!) entered the dock would have been 30/10/78 rather than the 3/10/78 as CT intimates. I don't think the 3/11/78 would fit as QE2 would have been alongside from her arrival on 29/10/78 until 3/11/78.

In essence a zero has been missed from the date in the book!

CAP wrote: From the additional information I'm guessing now that the actual date she (QE2 not CT!) entered the dock would have been 30/10/78 rather than the 3/10/78 as CT intimates. I don't think the 3/11/78 would fit as QE2 would have been alongside from her arrival on 29/10/78 until 3/11/78.

In essence a zero has been missed from the date in the book!

That makes sense. October 30, 1978 was a Monday.

The Carol Thatcher book did not omit the zero it states the wrong month. The book states the refit started on 3 October 1978 when the ship actually went into drydock on 3 NOVEMBER 1978.

Voyage 281
15 - 21 October 1978
New York to Southampton

Voyage 282
21 - 30 October 1978
Canaries (Las Palmas, Tenerife, Madeira)

On the above voyage she suffered a boiler room fire on 27 / 28 October.


The brochured 1978 schedule included an annual refit to start around 10 November and last about 17 days. However, the UK shipyard unions were still aggrieved about the 1977 refit being shifted to Bayonne they demanded more work to compensate them for the work they lost in 1977. Cunard relented and cancelled the following scheduled crossings:



30 October – 4 November (westbound).



4 – 10 November (eastbound).



The refit caused further problems to QE2’s schedule. Originally QE2 was scheduled to depart Southampton for New York on 27 November but her refit overran. She was in the King George V Drydock from 3 November - 5 December.



QE2 did not finally depart Southampton until 14 December with her arrival in New York being 21 December. Therefore the following voyages were cancelled:



27 November westbound transatlantic



2 December Caribbean cruise (two weeks) from New York



16 December five-day ‘Bonanza Cruise’ to the Bahamas from New York

33morgan wrote:

Voyage 281
15 - 21 October 1978
New York to Southampton

This voyage arrived in Southampton on October 20, as scheduled. It was a non-stop, 5-night voyage that omitted Cherbourg. QE2 stayed overnight in Southampton but passengers who were booked on the next voyage were required to disembark and spend the night ashore at a local hotel. This was standard practice in those days and the "land package" was included in the "trans-cruise" fare.

Voyage 282

21 - 30 October 1978
Canaries (Las Palmas, Tenerife, Madeira)

On the above voyage she suffered a boiler room fire on 27 / 28 October.

This voyage was scheduled to return to Southampton on October 29, and as far as I know from passengers who were actually on the voyage, it arrived in Southampton on that date and they made their scheduled October 29, flights back to New York.

33morgan wrote:Voyage 282
21 - 30 October 1978
Canaries (Las Palmas, Tenerife, Madeira)

On the above voyage she suffered a boiler room fire on 27 / 28 October.

I didn't realise that there was a boiler room incident, but as I can't find any more detail about this I suspect that the fire although troublesome did not cause any change to the cruise itinerary. This leads me to assume that QE2 did arrive back into Southampton around the scheduled time. With your confirmation that QE2 went into dry-dock on 3/11/78 my earlier question of what was she doing between her arrival back and subsequent drydocking remains. This would have been anything upto 5 days which is a substantive amount of time. There could be many explanations as to the reasons why, could work have started on the refit whilst she was alongside waiting for KGV to become available? was she chartered? was there another short voyage?

The dates were taken from QE2's official logs which I once had an opportunity to study and make notes from.

Perhaps she was alongside in Southampton until 3 November waiting for the drydock to become available? Perhaps Canberra, Oriana or another ship was using the drydock at this time?

The logs did not show another voyage so she was in Southampton.

33morgan wrote:The dates were taken from QE2's official logs which I once had an opportunity to study and make notes from.

The dates of arrival in Southampton that I listed above (October 20 from New York and October 29 from the Canary Isles cruise) are correct. These were the scheduled dates in the brochures, the dates that were on my tickets (I cancelled after receiving my tickets and discovering that the westbound crossing of Oct 30 - Nov 04 had been cancelled*), and they were confirmed to me personally, shortly thereafter, by passengers who were actually aboard on both voyages. I was as close to being there at the time as one can get without actually being there.

CAP: There were 2 engine room fires on QE2 while I was aboard: one in Vigo in 1981 and the other in mid-Atlantic in 1980. Neither fire delayed our arrivals at our next port: Southampton (Vigo fire), or New York (mid-Atlantic fire).


*Cunard's official booking agents in Canada had failed to inform Thomas Cook in Montreal of the changes. Consequently I was able to cancel without penalty on October 10 and get an immediate refund, but I had the tickets, including the voucher for the Oct 20/21 overnight stay in Southampton, in my hands. I ended up getting a travel credit which I applied to my 1979 QE2 trip.

Thanks Brian_O, 33morgan.

33morgan thanks for providing the source and validation. I guess with the juggling to get the ship into a UK yard Cunard had to compromise QE2's schedule and in all probability start the refit whilst she was alongside, before going into dry-dock. As a footnote I presume she would have at the Ocean Terminal in Southampton?


Brian you don't happen to have the actual dates of the incidents you mention?

CAP wrote:


Brian you don't happen to have the actual dates of the incidents you mention?

Vigo -- Friday, September 4, 1981 (early to mid afternoon).

Mid-Atlantic -- Monday September 8, 1980 (around noon)


The 1980 fire was the second fire of the day. At about 1:45 am there was a fire on 5 Deck Aft. I was heading back to my cabin on 4 deck aft when I noticed the smoke. A crew member saw me and asked if he could use the phone in my cabin to report the fire to the Bridge. In the next 45 minutes or so he used my phone a few times to make progress reports.